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Jeff Ward: It's Time to Occupy the Catholic Church

Chicago Cardinal George just can't seem to get it right!

 

As I was pondering the positive effects of the Occupy Wall Street protests, another local news story caught my eye. The two events may appear to be disparate, but if you consider some interesting parallels, I think they actually complement each other quite well.

Essentially what I’m saying is, I think it’s time for an “Occupy the Catholic Church” movement.

Of course, whenever I broach this touchy subject, all kinds of cross-wearing folk come out of the woodwork to accuse me of Catholic bashing and being anti-church. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Let’s start with those nine years (including kindergarten) at St. Nick’s. Armed with that education, I waltzed into all honors classes at Evanston Township High school. I was an altar boy, a church reader and volunteered on numerous projects. I still keep in touch with some of the nuns, teachers and priests from that time.

The Jesuits at Loyola University of Chicago put anything the Ivy League can offer to shame. And three of my most prized possessions include two quotes done in calligraphy by one of those nuns, and a cross made out of wood from an old St. Nick’s pew.

Though the thought didn’t come to me in exactly that fashion, at some point I began ascribing to Sting’s notion that, “Men go crazy in congregations, but they get better one by one.”

But despite declaring myself an official ex-Catholic, in no way does that mean I’m minimizing or disowning that heritage. On the contrary—I’m proud of it!

That said, let’s move on to our local news story.

Stopping just short of excommunication, Chicago Cardinal Francis George and his fellow bishops indignantly blasted Gov. Pat Quinn, a Catholic, for presenting a pro-choice PAC leadership award. They said, by “aligning” himself with that group, he was “supporting the legal right to kill children in their mothers’ wombs.”

My first thought was, “When will the church apply that same kind of zero-tolerance religious zeal to themselves?" But instead of going down that road, let’s just move on.

So my second thought was, "Isn’t this man throwing the first stone, the same man who, in the face of a mounting church child-sex-abuse scandal, allowed The Rev. Daniel McCormack to prey on young boys for 14 long years?"

In 1992, two men and one minor accused McCormack of abusing them while he was in the seminary. The subsequent letter placed in McCormack’s file simply "disappeared."

In 1999, an assistant principal informed the archdiocese that the priest had abused a fourth-grade boy. Though she delivered that letter herself, the archdiocese said they never received it.

In 2003, a woman called the archdiocese to report her grandson was being molested by McCormack. Violating the very policies set forth by the cardinal himself, the archdiocese refused to call the police.

After McCormack was first arrested in August 2005, an independent review board created by the cardinal directed him to remove McCormack from the priesthood. He did not.

Finally, in 2006, 19 long years after that first case of abuse, McCormack was arrested when another parent complained to another principal who had actually had the good sense to go to the police.

And how did the church punish George for his complicit failure to protect children? They named him president of the U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops. If it were you or me, we’d be sitting in a jail cell.

But back to the present. After the cardinal trashed the governor, it turns out the award wasn’t going to any kind of abortionist, it was being presented to “pre-eminent” rape-victim advocate Jennie Goodman, herself a rape victim at the age of 18.

Goodman, who’s neither had nor encouraged as much as one abortion, a woman who could have justifiably issued a scathing counterattack on the Catholic Church, simply replied, “It hurts for all those people who have been raped.”

That’s certainly a far cry from George’s statement attacking her because the governor was “rewarding those deemed most successful in this terrible work.”

It kind of makes you wonder whether George or Goodman should be the cardinal.

When he finally understood the magnitude of his mistake, just what did the cardinal do? It certainly wasn’t anything as rash as issuing an apology. He stoically claimed he “regrets” that Goodman felt attacked and added, had he been aware of her story, “We may have found another occasion to say something about the governor.”

Ah, yes! Being a Catholic cardinal or bishop means never having to be aware of anything.

Aren’t these the same religious leaders who commissioned the John Jay Report, which blamed the sex-abuse scandal on the '60s counterculture, the rise of feminism and the tolerance of homosexuality? Let’s not forget that document also claimed priests were only pedophiles if they molested someone under 10 years of age.

Isn’t this the same church that hasn’t punished one bishop or cardinal for their role in a worldwide child-sex-abuse cover-up?

And then Cardinal George attacks a rape-victim advocate. Talk about throwing the first stone …

My first thought was to call on Catholics everywhere to follow my lead and leave a church that so dismally falls short of the expectations they place upon their own flock. But considering all the good the Catholic Church does, I believe that would be the equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

And then I remembered the fine example being set by the "Occupy" protestors. In spite of this country’s many faults, they’re not abandoning it, they’re reminding our leaders what made it so great in the first place.

So, I've decided to issue this challenge instead. Catholics! Take back your church.

About this column: Jeff Ward is an entrepreneur, freelance writer and a longtime opinion columnist for Patch and a number of West Suburban daily newspapers. The views and opinions expressed by the author are his own, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Patch.com. Related Topics: Cardinal George, Chicago Cardinal Francis George, Jeff Ward, Occupy Wall Street, Patch, and catholics

robert poznanski

8:31 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

There is the one tenet in the Catholic mindset, that keeps the blinders on, and the mind of reason, disengaged! Faith! Faith in God, faith of the popes "infallibility', faith in the "leadership", (priest's nun's ,etc.,) and the ever present "fate', of excommunication, for disagreeing, in any principle, or way, of the churches, "teachings! This blind faith, per say, has been responsible for centuries of abuses,that to the logical person, is nothing short of criminal,much less, anti Christian! I to, am a product of 12 years of Catholic education, the very one that has taught me to reason,inquire,and live my life,with ethics,and compassion, and love of my fellow humans plights, and foibles! Nowhere , was it implied, that I had to except what has become, just another dark mark, on the century's of abuse, that the church, can attribute, to its past! So, logically, I don't, and have found that I can relate to God, on my own terms,without "help", and live my live,as I think it should be lived, in grace, and love for my fellow humans, just as Christ said! "Where you gather in my name,( even as one) there shall I be!"

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Vincent Russell

10:27 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Kamenetsky: Report child abuse to rabbis, not police
July 21, 2011
(JTA) -- A leading American Orthodox rabbi, Shmuel Kamenetsky, said that child abuse should be reported to rabbis, not police.

Kamenetsky, the vice president of Agudath Israel of America's Supreme Council of Rabbinic Sages, said in a speech July 12 in Brooklyn that the sexual abuse of a child should be reported to a rabbi, who would then determine if the police should be called. He made the speech as a search was being conducted for an 8-year-old Brooklyn boy, Leiby Kletzky, whose dismembered body was found the following day in a dumpster and in the apartment of Levi Aron.

Aron was indicted Wednesday in the boy's murder.

A recording of the Kamenetsky speech in Flatbush first appeared July 17 on the Failed Messiah blog. Kamenetsky was repeating Agudath Israel of America's official policy banning Jews from reporting child sexual abuse to police, according to the blog.

A representative of the Shomrim, a volunteer civilian patrol in New York, told the New York Daily News that his organization keeps a list of alleged child molesters whom they have not reported to the police. The New York Jewish Week reported that it is possible that Aron may have been known to some in the haredi Orthodox community, but that they did not report him to the police.

Jeff Ward

8:35 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Robert,

That last line in your comment says it all!

Jeff

EWS99

8:45 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Aside from those who perpetrated, condoned or ignored the abuse, church leaders are charged with fulfilling Catholic doctrine. Despite your best efforts to asuage those who would be offended by your, yes, church bashing, you hang the whole church on two factors; 1). abuse by a small percentage of individuals and 2). church doctrine, such as its pro-life posture. Quinn is simply not Catholic, regardless of what he calls himself, and the Cardinal did the right thing...in accordance with the church's DOCTRINE. You might not like it, but the church doesn't and God willing, never will, bend to the whims of an increasingly base, secular society. Good for you that you recognized your need to find another, more easily-lived altar. Catholicism is not for the faint of heart.

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reverened mother

9:35 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Excuse me..."abuse by a SMALL PERCENTAGE OF INDIVIDUALS???" First off, that's an understatement if I ever heard one, second, if it were YOUR CHILD who was abused, it wouldn't matter if it were one individual or a thousand who were responsible. What you are saying is that as long as (in your calculations), only a few (thousand) individuals were CAUGHT, it's not a real problem. Talk about wearing blinders. Since when does DOCTRINE over ride FAITH? I AM a Catholic, born and raised and schooled for 12 years. I am involved in my church. I DO NOT CONDONE man-appointed church 'leaders' preaching the evils of sin, while they themselves are among the most guilty. Doctrine was written by man. FAITH was created by GOD and instills in us by CHRIST. You show me where Christ says it's OK to sexually abuse a child if you are a man of the cloth? Show me where Christ says it's OK to condemn a woman who was coerced or forced into sexual relations and is forced to carry and conceive the child of her abuser? Most often the abuser will not financially support her or the child. The Catholic church, instead of protecting her, would most likely SHAME HER into having a child she did not ask for because she had sex she did not want. Show me where CHRIST says that's OK? True, Christ may not have said it's OK to abort, but in those days, that was probably because abortion would have killed both the mother and the child. It is time that the Church atones for centuries of its own sins. Small percentage??

Bob LeMay

8:59 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

According to studies, a larger percentage of school teachers abuse students than Catholic priests. (I've seen an estimate that 10% of California students will be sexually harassed or assaulted before the end of high school.) And a larger percentage of ministers in other Christian denominations, as well. Where is the outcry? Oh, right--no deep pockets in individual churches, small denominations, or local school districts.

Yes, individual priests and bishops have done horrible things, or covered up horrible things. That does not mean that the institutional church does not still have the moral authority to speak out against evils in society, or to call it's own members--Quinn claims to be Catholic--on the carpet for their behavior that can lead others into sin.

If bad behavior by members prevented an institution from following its charter, the police department could not arrest anyone, nor could legislators pass laws, nor day care workers care for children, nor columnists state their opinions in a public forum.

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Jeff Ward

9:03 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Bob,

Number one, anyone can say "according to studies" and even if that were true, none of them engaged in the kind of aiding, abetting and cover up like the Catholic Church hierarchy did.

And if the Church can't apply that same morality to themselves then they have lost the right to speak out.

Lastly, do you really want to use the "we're bad, but others are worse" excuse here? I really hope you don't.

Jeff

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Bob LeMay

9:33 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Sorry, Jeff, I don't claim to be a journalist, so I don't have my research notes with me... But some of the stories I have read did show that school principals often "passed along" the accused or suspected teachers, rather than dealing with them or reporting them. Look at the Penn State situation. So, yes, there was "aiding and abetting" in other organizations.

So your statement that "none of them engaged..." is patently false. Are your going to issue a retraction or apology?

And my claim isn't so much that "we're bad but others are worse" but that the media and the legal system haven't paid as much attention to how widespread the problem is.

Of course there are many who would want to muzzle the Catholic Church, because its longstanding position on issues like abortion, same-sex attraction, marriage, and family are contrary to many in today's society. I agree that the statement by the Illinois Bishops should have indicated that the worthiness of the recipient was not in question, but only the governor's implicit support of the pro-abortion group presenting the award. But especially on issues like this--a politician claiming to be Catholic disregarding Catholic teaching (the award was being presented by a pro-abortion group, which the governor should not have been supporting, no matter the innocence of the recipient)--the Cardinal and Bishops have every right to speak out.

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Jeff Ward

9:43 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Bob,

If you don't hold yourself to the same standard, then you've lost your right to speak out. Plain and simple.

Jeff

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Bob LeMay

10:06 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

On every topic or issue?

So, if you've ever gotten a speeding ticket or told a lie or fudged on your taxes or done anything else immoral or illegal or "wrong", I'll expect that you will no longer be writing a column for the Patch, right? Because, as someone once said, if you haven't held "yourself to the same standard, then you've lost your right to speak out. Plain and simple."

We are all fallen humans, sinful and constantly repenting before God for our waywardness. According to your statement, NONE of us would be able to speak out on any issue, as I expect we've all done things that we know are wrong. So get over your anger with the Catholic Church and move on.

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Jeff Ward

10:17 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Bob,

I've gotten one speeding ticket in the last 20 years and I took responsibility and paid the fine! I don't cheat on my taxes - with all the GOP tax breaks who needs to.

I'm certainly not perfect, but understanding I write on moral issues, I do my best to live a moral life.

But not only did the Church fail at that, they then tried to cover it up and still defend themselves. Thus, they've lost the right to speak out.

Jeff

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Bob LeMay

10:29 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

You "try" to live a moral life...

Bob Santini

9:47 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

God bless the secularists !!

ken loebel

9:54 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

The thought that comes to mind for me in reading this is that there is just another example of hypocricy...Do as I say, not as I do...Live as I say, not as I do... You need to live your life a certain way.... (rather than we need to live our lives a certain way)...

Whether or not it is a small percentage of the Church or a large percentage, the denials, protections,and attempts to discredit the individuals who came forward with complaints is a sin, and is shameful, and the Church leaders who observed it ought to have experienced AT LEAST the same penalty as Joe Paterno has experienced.

That said, it also just shows that humans are humans, and that certain humans are not Gods, they are humans, and will commit acts of sin, as all humans do. Rather than condemn the entire religion or the people who follow that faith, I prefer to pray for all,and to pray for consistency and credibility and authenticity... as such, having the Church make acknowledgements for past derilictions of duties also asks upon us one of the most difficult but necessary elements of the faith... forgiveness.

Yes, the easiest thing in the world is to throw stones. And it is easy to find fault... in others.

Let those who live in glass houses throw the first stone. And then see if the glass house remains unshattered.

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Christine Balaty

9:12 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Amen, Ken! Let he who has not sinned be the first to cast a stone.

Because some in the Church have sinned and stained it, that does not mean that Church leaders should abandon precepts of the Church - written by humans inspired by GOD through the Holy Spirit!!! Neither should Catholics. Though "the smoke of Satan has entered the Church", there are many more who uphold the Faith. The Church is run by humans, but the Word, traditions, and yes, the Pope when speaking with Papal infallibility on rare occasions, are inspired by God. If you do not believe that, you can no longer call yourself Catholic. Those "Catholics" who speak against the Church, its teachings, and its doctrines have a name - heretics.

john grier

10:00 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Jeff you should share your ponderings and responses today with the priests and nuns you regularly keep up with. It is obvious you have some unresolved issues with respect to the Catholic Church. I would also recommend the Catholicism series on PBS. It is excellent.

Best regards.

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Jeff Ward

10:09 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

John,

Those nuns and priests agree with me!

Jeff

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john grier

10:18 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Did they agree with your decision to leave the church? I think they would counsel you to come back and effect change from within. You can be occupier #1!

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Jeff Ward

10:25 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

John,

In fact, one of the nuns left the church. I'm sure the priest would disagree with my choice, but that hasn't affected a long-time friendship. In fact, if I could quote that priest it really would be something!

Jeff

Eugene Bordelon

10:01 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Women's lives and health are at risk at Catholic hospitals because of a battle with Catholic bishops. A Catholic bishop excommunicated a nun and then the whole hospital because it aborted a woman's pregnancy to save her life! "Doctors at Catholic-affiliated hospitals ... are forced by church doctrine to provide substandard care to women with miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies in ways that can leave the women infertile or even endanger their lives."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/opinion/27kristof.html

The church is run by powerful white men with little respect for women and even children. They have supported and even lead wars - from the Holy Wars to the Iraq War - where millions have died for no reason.

We all know this and yet people and more specifically the media elevate them giving them a mouthpiece to express their contorted views.

What do leaders of other churches and service organizations say about Quinn giving an award to a woman who helps rape victims?

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Christine Balaty

9:17 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Really? Refusing to kill a child = "substandard" care. The secular world has truly brainwashed and desensitized people if murdering a child is considered respectful medical "care".

Vincent Russell

10:26 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Kamenetsky: Report child abuse to rabbis, not police
July 21, 2011
(JTA) -- A leading American Orthodox rabbi, Shmuel Kamenetsky, said that child abuse should be reported to rabbis, not police.

Kamenetsky, the vice president of Agudath Israel of America's Supreme Council of Rabbinic Sages, said in a speech July 12 in Brooklyn that the sexual abuse of a child should be reported to a rabbi, who would then determine if the police should be called. He made the speech as a search was being conducted for an 8-year-old Brooklyn boy, Leiby Kletzky, whose dismembered body was found the following day in a dumpster and in the apartment of Levi Aron.

Aron was indicted Wednesday in the boy's murder.

A recording of the Kamenetsky speech in Flatbush first appeared July 17 on the Failed Messiah blog. Kamenetsky was repeating Agudath Israel of America's official policy banning Jews from reporting child sexual abuse to police, according to the blog.

A representative of the Shomrim, a volunteer civilian patrol in New York, told the New York Daily News that his organization keeps a list of alleged child molesters whom they have not reported to the police. The New York Jewish Week reported that it is possible that Aron may have been known to some in the haredi Orthodox community, but that they did not report him to the police.

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Jeff Ward

10:27 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Vincent,

You can't begin to compare that to what's gone on in the Catholic Church. And didn't your mother ever tell you that two wrongs don't make a right?

Jeff

Vincent Russell

10:44 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

Mr. Ward,

Are you afraid to write an article about the Jewish rabbi's? I think so! Your anti-Catholic bigotry is beyond reproach.

Also, Cardinal George did not single out Ms. Goodman, he singled out Gov. Quinn who accepted $500,000 from a pro-abortion PAC. Cardinal George acknowledged he was misinformed that Gov. Quinn was presenting an award to the pro-abortion PAC that he accepted money, instead of an individual.

This is all yesterday's news, except for your bigotry. Aren't you a little late on this story?

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Jeff Ward

11:01 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

He singled out Ms. Goodman - end of story.

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reverened mother

3:05 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Vincent, perhaps you didn't read the article -- it was not about the evils among Jewish Rabbis, it was about the inappropriate behavior of Cardinal George in this particular incident of Ms. Goodman receiving an award that happened to be sponsored by a Pro-Choice organization. Yes, conversations segued to the centuries-long sex and pedophilia scandal within the Catholic Church. No one said that this type of behavior doesn't occur in other religious sects. Any clergy/priest/nun/rabbi/minister/teacher/coach/etc. -- who commits heinous acts against children (and adults), should be held accountable. PERIOD. Those who look the other way and shuffle the offenders through the system, are just as guilty and should be removed from their vocations and put behind bars with other sex offenders because that is what they are. Why is it that an average man who commits such acts is called a sociopath, a rapist, a pedophile, a CRIMINAL. But, a man of the church (or synagogue/mosque/temple...) gets to float from congregation to congregation while the so-called leaders look the other way and incriminating evidence and documentation simply 'vanishes' or is claimed not to exist? In the work place, if an employee is charged with sexual harassment, or worse, and the supervisors or management did not act appropriately to admonish the employee, that supervisor/manager is fired along with the employee. If the employee faces jail time, so could the employer. Not in the Church leaving victims vulnerable

Pat Clancy

11:43 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

The article states:

-- When he finally understood the magnitude of his mistake, just what did the cardinal do? It certainly wasn’t anything as rash as issuing an apology. He stoically claimed he “regrets” that Goodman felt attacked and added, had he been aware of her story, “We may have found another occasion to say something about the governor.” --

So Cardinal George was looking for an occasion to say something about the governor and, in his rush to judgment, targeted Ms. Goodman erroneously. What comes to my mind is that the church leaders are upset that Catholic Charities can no longer legally be given state aid for their work -- undoubtedly good work, but they are hampered by an unreasonable interpretation of church doctrine whereby they cannot grant adoptions to same-sex couples. The governor is following state law, and the church is following their "law," or the interpretation of their belief system by their leaders.

There may be other issues between Cardinal George and Governor Quinn that contribute to this feud, but it seems to me these two events are connected.

Pat Clancy

11:50 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

On the subject of Catholic priests, Jewish rabbis, school teachers and football coaches being guilty of child abuse, it is clear to me that this is the human condition, not a matter of religious denomination or secularism. Also part of our patriarchal culture is the secrecy and cover-up of misdeeds by members of the "club". Rabbis, cardinals, school principals and coaches are all guilty of the abuse and guilty of covering for the perpetrators. We must do everything we can to protect our children and expose hypocrisy!

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reverened mother

3:17 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

PRECISELY! Thank you -- anyone guilty of the cover-up should be held accountable, which is why we need to clean out the Church and start fresh. OCCUPY. REFORM. RESTORE. Out with the bad, in with the good. Funny how someone can be easily excommunicated from the church simply for holding certain opinions, but those entrusted with our souls, our children, our faith, can do anything they want simply by hiding behind the 'cloth' and the doctrine. If anyone should be excommunicated, it's them, starting from the top, all the way down the line.

Kevin

11:58 am on Friday, November 11, 2011

This author's time would be better spent "occupying' a seat in English 101. Regarding what is evidently his excruciating case of Catholic-derangement-syndrome, kindly exorcise those demons privately in the future.

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EWS99

7:58 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

I think you coined a new and appropriate moniker Kevin...CDS Catholic Derangement Syndrome. There's plenty in this thread that that would apply to.

ken loebel

12:06 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Wait...God is love...
Love is blind...
Ray Charles is blind...
Do you think... never mind.

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Jeff Ward

12:07 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Ken,

I think you're onto something! I regularly listen to the blind blues gospel master and I've often wondered...

Jeff

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Robert Bykowski

1:22 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Eagle Eye, I deleted your comment because when a comment starts "How do we even know she was raped" nothing good is going to follow.

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Elmhurst Eagle

1:29 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

OK, I'll simply ask Jeff, what is his source?

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Robert Bykowski

3:34 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Elmhurst Eagle,

I really appreciate you taking the time out to comment. I do. But honestly, nothing about this column (or anything, hopefully) should inspire anyone to accuse a rape victim of lying. So again, I deleted your comments.

Thanks,

Robert

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Elmhurst Eagle

4:08 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Robert, thanks for the censorship and being Jeff's good cop, bad cop.

Rape is a horrible crime and because it is, it carries a tough sentence. Just ask the boy from Glenbard West who was sentence last week to 14 years in prison.

Jeff's opinion column pertains to this woman, Ms. Goodman. I just want to know, what source Jeff is using for the story (and now you have entered the fray, what is your source?). How did he (and you) come to learn about Ms. Goodman? We have Governor Quinn's pro-choice TV ad staring Ms. Goodman that was paid for by Ms. Goodman's mother's PAC and we have Ms. Goodman, herself.

I'm not saying that Ms. Goodman is not a victim here, but why are there no police reports, hospital reports, eyewitnesses, etc. We also have a statement from Ms. Goodman that another 18 year old girl was raped by the same man, during the same summer, but no police reports or hospital reports were found. Nor were there any eyewitness.

Incredibly, neither Ms. Goodman and her mother nor the other victim and her family filed a police report to get the monster off the street. The D.A. cannot get Ms. Goodman to file a report or give a name to go after the rapist in order to protect other women.

If Jeff wants to hold up a person for having guts, he should write about the Glenbard West girl that stood up to her rape victim last week and sent him to jail. This is the real news of the week and she is our true hero!

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reverened mother

3:21 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Elmhurst Eagle -- the source is a rape victim saying she was raped. Are you really going to play the, "she must have asked for it" or "she's exaggerating" card?

Karen Moore

4:02 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Jeff,

I’m not quite certain of what you are trying to achieve with this opinion. In thinking about it, I can summarize it in the following ways.

1) I’m an opinion columnist and am searching for the most emotionally charged articles to grab people’s attention.
2) I’m a former Catholic that is trying to justify why I left the Catholic Church.
3) I’m unhappy because the Catholic Church has such an impact on American politics and don’t think they deserve it.

Being a Catholic means that you appreciate the church that Jesus created. Along with that is understanding the trials that the church has gone through during the 2000 years of it’s existence. The church is comprised of people, faith, sacraments and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Jeff Ward can make a decision to understand this and embrace it or criticize it and make it a goal to drag it down as much as possible and attempt to weaken it’s influence. I highly doubt that will happen, however if that makes you feel that you are making a difference, so be it. (cont.)

Karen Moore

4:03 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

It is just unfortunate that you, as well as many ex-Catholic’s have taken this path. My question is why? Why don’t you see the good instead of focusing on the bad? Sure, there have been mistakes that should be accounted for, but why be so negative and determined to bring down the entire institution?

I am probably close to your age and have been raised in the same environment you have been raised. It’s the “cradle Catholic” era. I have also been angry with everything that has gone on with the sex abuse scandal. However, I will not let that get the best of me. I strengthen my faith by going to mass on a regular basis, receiving the Eucharist and returning to the bible and sacraments instituted by Jesus and my faith. I also pray that the faith will be strengthened by this trial. I think that works best. Based on your comments I’m not sure what spiritual path you have taken. But in the future, I hope the Holy Spirit guides your words because they are certainly a reflection on yourself. If you feel comfortable with that, so be it….it’s your choice.

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Jeff Ward

4:06 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Karen,

I do see the good. I'm asking this respectfully - did you read the column? Instead of asking folks to walk away I asked, considering the good the Catholic Church does, bring it back to that glory!

Jeff

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Karen Moore

4:14 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Jeff,

But that is 1% of your opinion, what about the other 99%? Focus on the glory, not on the trials. Maybe that will help next time.

Talk about the good! There are people strengthening the church. I would love to see an article on Mother Theresa.

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Jeff Ward

4:30 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Karen,

When they put their moral money where their mouth is, I'll be the first one to write about it!

Jeff

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Vincent Russell

4:44 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Mr. Ward's bigoted attack on the Catholic Church is an outrage.

If he is writing a story based on facts, fine. Since it is an opinion column and he has voiced his opinions and thrown in falsehoods, and Patch allows this kind of bigoted journalism, I call on all Catholics readers and advertisers not to support Patch until Mr. Ward takes back his smear campaign.

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Kevin Fitzpatrick

4:46 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Ms. Moore, your points are beautifully stated. Being a Catholic today means being under scrutiny all of the time in all levels of media. I believe it strengthens more faith than it weakens. To Mr. Ward, I would simply state that the faithful are mortified by the sins of our brethren that have caused pain and victimization to people. The church is at most the body of believers, not the buildings or hierarchy. We continue to repent for those who've suffered at the hands of people among us who did wrong. We should be entitled to take repose in the good that this entire people do every hour of every day. We lost you Jeff. I hope some faith has found you or you found it. Fr. Hesburgh used to say "if you find the perfect church, by all means join it. But know that the moment you do, it is no longer perfect". That's true of any institution of humans. No apology from Cardinal George would be enough or public enough. You received a great education from Catholic institutions that allowed your free will to make the choice it did. Your article brought out the comments you thought it would. I read it twice. The criticism isn't new. It's just tired. Ms. Goodman deserves all of our prayers. We all have to do better.

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Vincent Russell

4:52 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Bigoted, Anti-Catholic Writer Jeff Ward Is At it Again!
-----------
I hope Catholics put our moral money back in our pockets and not advertise any more in Patch until Mr. Ward's ends his anti-Catholic smear campaign.

Karen and Robert, is it possible to flag an entire column inappropriate for hate speech and bigotry?

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Karen Moore

5:24 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Jeff,

If the Second Coming happened today how would you react if you were face to face with Jesus? Would you have a laundry list of things to complain about on how the Catholic Church failed society or would you focus on Jesus and give him glory? I’m hoping the second. Now is your chance….don’t waste it.

Karen

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Jeff Ward

6:03 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Karen,

Definitely the laundry list. Don't forget! God also created opinion columnists!

Jeff

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reverened mother

3:57 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Karen -- so you're content with just being angry about the sex abuse scandals but you don't want anything done about them? You just want to go Mass (which is great, I go to Mass, too) and pretend everything is great with the Church? See the Church through rose colored glasses? If we don't make a fuss, maybe it will just all go away? Wouldn't you want to see a positive change in the Church? A change that would ensure the safety and well being of all children? A change that would at best excommunicate if not imprison the offenders? Going to Mass and taking Eucharist are commendable, and yes, we all, as Catholics should attend and partake regularly in order to help strengthen our own faith, I agree, but that alone will not change or solve the problems that are deeply rooted in the upper echelons of church bureaucracy. Someone earlier accused Jeff of heresy because of his outrage regarding these matters. The real heretics here are the church bureaucrats and the sex offenders within our sacred Church. I love the church -- as outlined by CHRIST. I love my faith. The corruption and those who perpetuate it are the demons that must be driven out.

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Raymond Gibbons

8:32 pm on Saturday, November 12, 2011

I no longer participate in the Catholic religion. Former altar boy, 16 years of Catholic schooling and an open mind.
With all due respect, Ms. Moore, fondling and forcing oral sex on an innocent young boy is not a MISTAKE!

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Karen Moore

9:59 pm on Saturday, November 12, 2011

To all who replied to my comment;
I guess I need to provide clarification, because it is apparent that my words caused people to assume that I am not as disgusted and angry as others feel about the sex abuse scandal. Trust me, I am and I hope justice is served and those involved in the act and cover up are treated just like any other criminal that have committed similar crimes. And yes, the Church needs to continue to institute practices to ensure that children are protected. I have chosen the path to stay with the church and not give up and walk away. I love the church and will continue to practice my Catholic faith. People make up the church and I believe that with prayer and love, it can be strengthened. The church is not only the hierarchy, it’s the families that fill the church and celebrate the sacraments. And I love that family of believers.

Elmhurst Eagle

4:03 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Robert, thanks for the censorship and being Jeff's good cop, bad cop.

Rape is a horrible crime and because it is, it carries a tough sentence. Just ask the boy from Glenbard West who was sentence last week to 14 years in prison.

Jeff's opinion column pertains to this woman, Ms. Goodman. I just want to know, what source Jeff is using for the story. How did he come to learn about Ms. Goodman. We have Governor Quinn's pro-choice TV ad staring Ms. Goodman that was paid for by Ms. Goodman's mother's PAC and we have Ms. Goodman, herself.

I'm not saying that Ms. Goodman is not a victim here, but why are there no police reports, hospital reports, eyewitnesses, etc. We also have a statement from Ms. Goodman that another 18 year old girl was raped by the same man, during the same summer, but no police reports or hospital reports were found. Nor were there any eyewitness.

Incredibly, neither Ms. Goodman and her mother nor the other victim and her family filed a police report to get the monster off the street. The D.A. cannot get Ms. Goodman to file a report or give a name to go after the rapist in order to protect other women.

If Jeff wants to hold up a person for having guts, he should write about the Glenbard West girl that stood up to her rape victim last week and sent him to jail. This is the real news of the week and she is our true hero!

Vincent Russell

4:59 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Bigoted, Anti-Catholic Writer Jeff Ward Is At it Again!
-----------
I hope Catholics put our moral money back in our pockets and not advertise any more in Patch until Mr. Ward's ends his anti-Catholic smear campaign.

Karen and Robert, is it possible to flag an entire column inappropriate for hate speech and bigotry?

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reverened mother

11:13 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Spoken like someone who can't handle the truth, Vincent. Speaking out against pedophile priests who prey on innocent children, or the hypocrites who would rather see a woman shamed, or worse, die, rather than allow her a SAFE ABORTION -- as opposed to forcing her to find some back alley butcher -- is not being Anti-Catholic or Bigoted. It is standing up for the oppressed and the abused who fall victim to bureaucracy and 'doctrine'. Deny it all you want, but abortion would continue, legal or not -- moral or not --and that is extremely dangerous and why we should leave it a CHOICE. Making abortions illegal will result in more blood shed and unthinkable, horrific possibilities, as was true for ages until quite recent times. Even though you obviously have strong convictions against abortion, you must agree that having them in a safe, sterile environment, and performed by DOCTORS, is better than having women and desperate young girls falling victim, yet again, to greedy, dirty barbarians in some filthy shack. As for the pedophile priests -- it is high time the Church was held accountable for its own sins, starting at the very top. Anyone who committed, helped cover-up, deny, or otherwise hide priest pedophilia activities and other sexual and physical abuse, and other criminal corruption within the Church should be held accountable and removed from their 'vocation'. No one wants dirty politicians yet it's OK to have dirty clergy? Occupy, Reform and Restore the Church!

EWS99

8:18 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Dear "Reverend Mother"... Nobody's 'excusing' the abuse on any level, but don't make it uniquely "Catholic" either. It isn't. Of the millions upon millions of Catholics worldwide, I can assure you, there is plenty of outrage for each and every victim. Also, abortion is the VASTLY ELECTIVE termination of life...a means of birth control. The fact that it is a choice is, in my opinion, physiologically inarguable. It is also inarguable that life begins at conception, for life is not possible WITHOUT conception. Of course its a choice...a choice that should be made SOONER.

Christine Balaty

8:52 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Rape is a horrible crime. However, as it is said, two wrongs don't make a right. Rape is not an excuse to kill a child. When someone kills a pregnant mother, it's ruled a double homicide. When a woman kills her child, it's called a "choice". God help us Americans who hide murder in semantics. Thank you, Catholic church, for being a moral voice in an immoral world. The fact that it has been infiltrated with and attacked by evil simply show that it is a moral force to be reckoned with. If we weren't on the right moral course, Satan wouldn't bother with us. Pedophilia is everywhere, by the way. Case in point, the recent Penn State events. The media (you included) simply choose to magnify those offenses by church religious in order to tear down what God has built. Shame on you, Jeff Ward. Get your facts straight, as well. The Chuch has been steadily recognizing and taking steps to rid itself of its sexual sins - more than most Americans can claim. Bravo, Cardinal George, for shepherding his people according to the teachings of the Church and not caving to American culture.

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Jeff Ward

9:31 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Christine,

The Church has done nothing to repent and atone for their own sins. And the fact that others behave almost as badly does not absolve the church. If I were Cardinal George I really wouldn't want to have to face the Big Guy.

It ain't gonna be pretty.

Jeff

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reverened mother

9:55 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Christine, I'm so sorry that your judgment is so clouded. When someone kills a pregnant mother, that mother, most likely, WANTED TO CONCEIVE THAT CHILD. It's a double homicide because the woman was carrying the child to term, most likely out of the CHOICE to be a mother. The family lost a mother and a child to violence. When a woman is RAPED -- she is violated, often brutalized. She should not be forced to relive that experience every time she looks into the eyes of the child she DIDN'T WANT, because she was forced to have sex she DIDN'T WANT. What kind of life is it for that child to know he/she was the product of rape? How is the woman supposed to cope and survive -- physically, emotionally, mentally, sexually -- financially? Whether she keeps the child or gives it up for adoption, she still relives that rape over and over again, while the rapist is usually never caught -- especially if the rapist is a boyfriend or HUSBAND (and YES -- Husbands do rape wives. A wedding band does not give him the right to violate and abuse her). In the case of rape and when carrying a child to term could be fatal to the mother -- yes, abortion should be a choice. It's so easy to sit back and talk, unless it's happened to you or someone you know or love.

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Bob LeMay

10:17 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

reverened mother--So a baby's worth is based on the mindset of the mother, on whether the baby is wanted or not? Wow! I thought life was, according to the Declaration of Independence, an unalienable right, endowed by the Creator? Not a right that depends on what the mother thinks.

And, to quote that great columnist Jeff Ward, "Two wrongs don't make a right", so killing an innocent baby (or fetus or embryo, if you want more technically correct terms for a human being at an early stage of development) won't make the rape go away, and can cause the mother to suffer even more psychologically.

And are you serious about this statement: "the rapist is usually never caught -- especially if the rapist is a boyfriend or HUSBAND". Umm, if you know the identity of the rapist, they would be easy to catch, even if they might not successfully be prosecuted...

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reverened mother

10:21 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

No, Christine, SHAME ON Cardinal George for perpetuating the problem of pedophilia in the Catholic Church.Had he stepped up when he should have, offending priests would have been REMOVED from the Catholic Church instead of shuffled, secretly, quietly, to yet another parish where they could offend again...and again..

reverened mother

9:01 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

EWS -- I never said it was "uniquely Catholic". I'm sure other religions have their issues, I am familiar with those of MY religion and I am ashamed of our so-called leaders for constantly looking the other way and forcing 'doctrine' instead of DOING THE RIGHT THING. As long as we have Popes and Cardinals and Bishops and other so called leaders of the flock who shuffle the offenders from parish to parish, only to prey on other innocent children and adults, OUR CHURCH IS CORRUPT. When are we going to get leaders who will finally 'grow a pair' and stand up for what is right and put those perpetrators behind bars, or get them into rehab and out of our churches, schools, youth groups, camps, choirs, etc.? As far as your comment regarding 'a choice that should be made sooner,' hmm, how does a RAPE VICTIM (whether she is someone's girlfriend, acquaintance, WIFE, or total stranger), make that choice, when the sex is unwanted and forced upon her? Why should she bear not only the shame of the violation and of course the judgment of courts, clergy, and people like Elmhurst Eagle who dare ask, "how do we know she was raped.." -- but now she's supposed to bear the child of her accuser? Contrary to what you and all doctrine-fed fanatics believe, not all conceptions are miraculous and wonderful. Why should a woman carry an unwanted child resulted from UNWANTED SEX? The choice "to be made sooner" lies with the MAN who chose to violate her. The woman in the article was RAPED. (cont'd)

reverened mother

9:31 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

(Cont'd) - The award that was given to her was sponsored by an organization who has done a lot of GOOD for women just like her, who started out as VICTIMS but then became empowered by taking control of their own lives and their own bodies. I'm not saying that abortion is OK in all cases. It is certainly not an alternative to birth control, but it should be left as a CHOICE so that women who fall victim to rape or who are in danger of losing their own lives, can be spared life-changing sorrow for them and their families. Not all abortions are done for 'convenience'. Those that are, however, are up to GOD to judge - not the Church leaders or doctrine-fed fanatics. People who live solely by doctrine don't see or hear THE WORD. God sees all angles of a story or situation. Fanatics and hypocrites see only what they want to see and are quick to site bits and pieces of the Scripture which may or (or may not) suit their purpose. The Church has hidden behind such excerpts too long. CHRIST hung out with sinners. He understood sinners. He FORGAVE sinners. He condemned, if you recall, the HYPOCRITES who were the first to point fingers and throw stones and yes, sight Scripture to their advantage. Pedophile priests and the church leaders who protect them are hypocrites and sinners. Christ will forgive them, if they repent and pay for their sins, but how can they if they are never brought to justice?

reverened mother

9:57 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Jeff, to add to your comment -- If I were Cardinal George, I would RESIGN on the grounds that I have failed my congregation by not protecting their children!

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Kevin

8:15 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

While I can't identify from your writings exactly which mainstream religion your beliefs most closely resemble, given your antipathy toward the pontiff, the clergy, and the basic tenets of the magisterium, I can safely say that it is not the Roman Catholic variety. Since membership in the Roman Catholic Church is voluntary, why not seek out a religion that is more closely aligned with your beliefs? You, and those around you, would probably be much happier.

reverened mother

10:05 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Karen -- Jeff won't have to give Christ the 'laundry list' of complaints against the Church because Christ is more than aware and I'm sure his 'list' is much longer than that of Jeff's. I'm certain Christ is very saddened and disappointed in the Church he once entrusted to St. Peter and whom he now entrusts to the Pope. You can bet that Peter would not have looked the other way when issues of corruption, indecency, and crime within his church were brought to his attention. Especially crimes against children. Jesus loves the children more than any of us. I can assure you, Christ is OUTRAGED and will hold accountable those on his 'list' when "he comes again in glory to judge..." Jeff won't need to do a thing.

Christine Balaty

10:38 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Dear "reverend mother", please do not assume that I know not of what I speak, as I have been in shoes of which you know not - including an abusive marriage and issues of "choice". I know EXACTLY what it is like because I lived it. Clouded judgement? Hmmm. I think not. I believe I have singular clarity, and I resent the assault on my beliefs, judgement, and me personally by you, who have not even disclosed your identity and are hiding behind a false title. I know my faith, and I believe in forgiveness and redemption. Cardinal George is human, and who are we to judge his past sins? We are not God. Do you personally know what sins he has confessed or what God has forgiven? All he, or any one of us can do is learn from the past and go forward each day trying to do better. I certainly hope there is forgiveness because I would not want to have every sin I've committed blacken the good I've tried to do. The Church has instituted " protecting God's children" and taken many steps to correct the past. I believe Cardinal George is trying to move forward and do the right thing NOW, as we must each do every day. You must be perfect yourself to hold others to a standard of perfection.

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reverened mother

10:45 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Yet you find it perfectly fine to assault the beliefs of others, Christine? You find it OK to judge a woman who seeks an abortion for reasons that are no one's business but her own? I never once claimed to be perfect. I'm human, therefore it's a given that I, too, am a sinner. But if I commit a sin that is a CRIME, I would expect to be held accountable. Cardinal George should be allowed to move forward, once he is held accountable for his actions. He DID NOT 'protect God's children,' he threw them under the bus. I'm only expecting him to do what he supposedly expects us to do -- take responsibility and be accountable for his actions. His actions, his sins crossed the line and became crimes, in his case, crimes that spanned years and affected dozens, if not hundreds of victims. We cannot just sit back and look the other way. We need to make our Church "holy and apostolic" if that's what we are to believe it is. Right now, it is not that, it hasn't been for a very long time. We need to get it there, and the only way to do that is to remove the corruption and the predators, not let them 'move on' and continue the cycle.

Christine Balaty

10:45 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Other thoughts... Did the child conceived through rape have a choice to live or die? Does committing a second sin rectify the first? Is life - the life of an innocent child no matter how he was conceived - worth less because of how it was created? and aren't you criticizing Cardinal George for exactly what you've asked him to do - "grow a pair and stand up for what is right"? Very contradictory reasoning. Whose judgement is clouded after all?

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reverened mother

11:22 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Why should the woman pay for the sin of the man who brutalized her?

Christine Balaty

10:49 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

And who is the hypocrite, condemning the sinners? Who is judging Cardinal George and others rather than letting God judge the "big picture"? Reread you comments and look in the mirror.

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reverened mother

1:48 pm on Saturday, November 12, 2011

If we cannot trust our Church leaders, we cannot trust our Church and our Church remains tainted and corrupt. George has proven himself untrustworthy time and time again. He needs to step down and pave the way for a cleaner Catholic Church. He is just as guilty as the priests who abused their victims. He knew about it and did nothing instead of standing up and doing the right thing.

reverened mother

11:33 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011

Bob, fine, to pacify you, I'll change my wording from 'the rapist is rarely caught' to the rapist is RARELY HELD ACCOUNTABLE. Feel better? Putting a rape victim through the agony of the case and the trial -- the skepticism and scrutiny that entails is bad enough. Putting her through nine months of carrying the spawn of the demon who raped her is emotional, psychological and physical torture. Some women can handle it, and GOD BLESS THEM eternally. But not all can -- especially young women or girls who are barely out of childhood themselves, or wose, women with special needs or disabilities. I used to be PRO LIFE, conservative, blinded by doctrine. But now I see that there are many sides to every choice. Now, I have more compassion. And as Christ could tell you, there is more to faith than doctrine itself. There are many shades of gray, nothing is black and white. There may be reasons why an abortion might be a blessing, who are we to say? Christ understands the anguish behind every decision -- behind every CHOICE. No one said the choices are easy. Most women agonize over having to resort to abortion. Not many of them skip to the clinic. Their reasons are theirs. Their judge is Christ. Not you, not I. If they cannot cope and abortion is their only, desperate hope, than so be it. Christ will comfort them, not condemn them. Can you say the same?

David

12:56 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Jeff, to start off I don't believe in any religion but I believe there is a God out there, so I believe that EVERY church and religion is crazy leading me to my question, Were you touched by a priest as a kid Jeff Or fondled with? Molested? hey if I was touched by a priest I would be writing an article too on the subject, i don't know bout anyone else but I'm here to lend a helping hand to you if you were infact molested its okay I'm here for you buddy don't be ashamed SPEAK OUT ( like you are doing) hundreds of boys in the catholic church or any church are molested on a yearly basis and are afraid to speak out, I respect and look up to you for speaking out and I thank you if only more people would reveal they have been molested as a child by a church i think there would be a stop to this madness

Bob McQuillan

1:14 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

The bottom line is this. I love writing for Patch because no other venue provides this kind of direct link to readers. Though my motto has always been “continuing the conversation,” some of you have me at a disadvantage. You know who I am, but I don’t know who you are.

And as much as it pains me to say this, if you don’t offer me the same courtesy, I will be forced to ignore your posts.

By all means, and within the bounds of reason, let’s keep the conversation going. I love hearing what you’re thinking. It doesn’t get any better than the discussion following my Wheaton College column.

But, as I also like to say, if you can’t find the fortitude to put your real name on it, then it ain’t worth saying.

Written by Jeff Ward

David

2:07 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

This article is dumb, composed of infantile logic, predictably regurgitative, and sophistic.

davidlgray.info

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Kevin

8:02 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

E.g., after preemptively smearing anyone who might disagree with him as "cross-wearing", he goes on ad nauseum to list his bona fides as former acolyte.

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reverened mother

3:42 pm on Monday, November 14, 2011

Really, David? Outrage against child molesters is dumb and infantile logic? Reaching out and showing compassion to a rape victim is dumb? Wanting to clean out the corruption and heinous crime from our church so that she can once again (or for the first time since Christ's day) can shine in the glory that Christ intended is dumb? On the contrary, David -- those who wish to remain passive, and look the other way when children are abused are DUMB -- they are more than dumb -- they are despicable.

usagi

6:59 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Thanks for your article.

Jeff, you wrote "I was an altar boy, a church reader and volunteered on numerous projects. I still keep in touch with some of the nuns, teachers and priests from that time....And three of my most prized possessions include two quotes done in calligraphy by one of those nuns, and a cross made out of wood from an old St. Nick’s pew."

It sounds like you have some serious history with ole' Mother Church, Jeff. There's some good service, good connections to good people, and some inspiration in there too. So why not occupy yourself, Jeff? We sure do need people like you in the fold.

Fact is, there are, and have always been (and you know this since you had a good Catholic upbringing, full of history) people working from within to occupy the Church, struggling to reform and renew it. It didn't all end with Vatican II. Remember Joseph Cardinal Bernardin, George's predecessor? One of the last things he did was to help found an organization devoted to just that kind of dialogue (http://catholiccommonground.org). National Catholic Reporter (http://ncronline.org) and Commonweal Magazine & Blog (http://www.commonwealmagazine.org) are also places you might begin your "Occupy the Church!" journey, or at least find some others wrestling with some of these same issues from "inside".

Keep asking questions, keep writing, Jeff.

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Jeff Ward

9:10 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Usagi,

This column and others are my "occupation." And you can count on me to keep writing about this!

Jeff

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reverened mother

11:29 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Jeff, I agree with usagi, you should come back to the church and help us reform Her from the inside out. We need to cleanse our Church, CHRIST's Church, from the evils that have corrupted Her so that she can become 'Holy and Apostolic' as Christ had intended.

Bob McQuillan

11:30 am on Saturday, November 12, 2011

The only journalism award I’ve ever won (and I had to share that one with then-Beacon-News Managing Editor Rick Nagel) was an honorable mention for religion reporting. Rick and I told the story of a group of Geneva parishioners who had challenged their monsignor and how the ensuing factional fighting was tearing the church apart.

written by Jeff Ward on September 23, 2011 with 130 comments.

It's all about the comments
written by Bob McQuillan November 5, 2011

Michael Joseph Stanek

12:40 pm on Saturday, November 12, 2011

If Sandusky and Penn State'ers are going to jail, so then should all the sick bastards in the Catholic Church who molested and raped children.

It is one of the reasons that I view organized religion with skepticism. And I am a follower and am very respectful of Jesus Christ, to the point where I have a winged cross tattooed on my arm.

The Catholic Church, and churches in general, I view with skepticism because of all of the waste that goes on. I lump it in with Government. There is so much waste, in terms of the food that is wasted at governmental or church events, the wasted money that is spent on golden chalices for the church, or brand new office equipment for governmental agencies, or Nancy Pelosi's special airplane privileges when she was Speaker of the House, etc.

It's not a partisan issue, either. Any waste of government funds makes me angry. I am also angry about wastes of donations in the Catholic Church-- however, people are WILLINGLY donating their money, so unless they demand accountibility, silence is consent.

Michael Joseph Stanek

12:45 pm on Saturday, November 12, 2011

And I am not saying that Sandusky and the Penn State'ers SHOULDN'T go to jail they should have gone to jail about 10 years ago when this first started.. But I am saying that it is a media spectacle that dominates the 24/hour news cycle, and nobody is making a big deal about the sex scandals in the churches that are still undoubtedly going on today.

reverened mother

1:55 pm on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Well put, Michael. The Church and the government need to be accountable for their corruption and shameful waste, but, as long as their are passive followers who prefer to look the other way while putting their money in the offertory, or campaign, not much is going to change.

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Tonto

10:06 pm on Saturday, November 12, 2011

Satan always attacks as much of the church as possible.

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Koshka

10:40 am on Sunday, November 13, 2011

Yes Tonto "Satan" attacks the church as much as possible.

Evidently one his most successful weapons is to inspire its employees to sexually attack children and then the employer to cover it up and to deny that they are doing it.

And then of course he inspires the pious congregations to deny any of this is happening.

I can't imagine a more satanically inspired plan engineered to destroy the sacred.

Koshka

10:30 am on Sunday, November 13, 2011

I will stop viewing the pious defenders of the RCC as self righteous enablers of sexual rape of children when they demand that Ratzinger present himself for sworn deposition in the litigation over the cover up his institution criminally orchestrated.

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Tonto

11:29 am on Sunday, November 13, 2011

Satan works in mysterious ways.

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Koshka

1:16 pm on Sunday, November 13, 2011

Yes switching to decaf might help Tonto see all of this as just the crimes of miserable humanity.

Dualistic theology really is not necessary to understand what is going on and what the remedy is - arrest the perps.

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Kevin

2:03 pm on Sunday, November 13, 2011

Koshka, my reply was to you.

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Koshka

3:45 pm on Sunday, November 13, 2011

Kevin, switch to reality.

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Tonto

1:25 pm on Sunday, November 13, 2011

You gonna cash in on some lawsuit?

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Koshka

3:43 pm on Sunday, November 13, 2011

Tonto, typical of enablers, resorts to minor key slander when he runs out of supportive facts and defendable principled positions.

But to endulge you this once with an answer to an irrelevant and sniveling question: no.

Tonto

7:52 pm on Sunday, November 13, 2011

Kos - i ain't gonna debate you and have you drowned me in trumped up facts, figures, websites, etc.. Its simple, its the economy stupid.no.just kidding :), we are ALL just sinners.

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Koshka

8:05 pm on Sunday, November 13, 2011

The issue is crime not sin.

As regards "trumped" up - I have no idea to what you are referring to but it sounds like you're gurgling.

Tonto

8:18 pm on Sunday, November 13, 2011

Kos, best of luck to you and your crusade to bring down the church. gurgle, gurgle :)

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Koshka

10:16 pm on Sunday, November 13, 2011

Ad hominem fallacy.

Also know as tripe.

Bye.

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reverened mother

9:59 am on Monday, November 14, 2011

The Church is bringing itself down through crime, scandal, and corruption. It is time we remove the crumbling walls and foundation and rebuild Her.

Colin C. Campbell

10:56 am on Monday, November 14, 2011

What an interesting conversation. But everyone seems to take several things for granted without question.

So, I will question.

The idea that there is a conscious entity that created and manages the universe is an unprovable assumption.

The idea that this entity, if it exists, inspired ancient scribes to write what that eventually became the Bible or other religious texts is an unprovable assumption.

The idea that the RC Church or any other institution speaks for this assumed being is an unprovable assumption.

Therefore, the idea that there is a “correct doctrine” is based upon a whole series of unprovable assumptions.

One may accept a doctrine or reject it but both choices are based upon faith, not fact.

To state that any particular doctrine in the “right” one and that all others are false is an unsustainable argument.

Churches, of any faith, are human institutions.

Under our Constitution all faiths have the right to state their beliefs and we have the right to accept any, all, or none.

When one of these faiths tries to incorporate its particular beliefs into the law of the USA it is in violation of the first amendment to the Constitution.

Likewise, if members of any faith violate the law they are subject to the legal consequences, regardless of their position in a church.

It does not always work that way in reality, but it should.

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Jeff Ward

11:31 am on Monday, November 14, 2011

Colin,

Yikes! And I thought I was a glutton for punishment! Though I totally agree with what you said, after sharing your thoughts on organized religion, I would highly consider hiring a body guard.

Either that or I do a pretty good eulogy.

Jeff

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Kevin

11:32 am on Monday, November 14, 2011

I don't recall anyone writing on this page that the Roman Catholic Church supercedes any other religious code, so your otherwise cogent analysis is irrelevant. As to whether our legal code is influenced by the Judeo-Christian code, you are mistaken.

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reverened mother

11:48 am on Monday, November 14, 2011

First off, our country was FOUNDED by people of Christian faith, who believed in the Bible, therefore our Country's base is that of Christian faith. Hence all the references to God in all things patriotic (In God we Trust, One nation under God, I will support and defend the constitution, so help me God...I swear to tell the whole truth...so help me GOD...etc) The constitution states that people are free to express their own religion, but the Constitution itself was written by Christian men and our laws are based in Christianity. Also, and more importantly, Faith is not something that can always be seen or proven. It is BELIEF. Faith is also that which helps strengthen the spirit of individuals and with strong individuals there is a strong community, a strong country. When one loses one's faith, one loses strength and therefore loses trust in not only the leaders who have weakened the faith, but also in oneself. A country without faith is weak. Our country was based on the laws of God. Those who don't believe that are in denial. Based on the freedoms of this country and the free will that God gave each of us, one is free to believe or not believe in God. Ironically, that in itself is a gift from God. God granted us free will which can lead us on the path to do right or the path to do wrong. Democracy protects our free will. While the choice remains ours, there are rewards for doing right and CONSEQUENCES for doing wrong.

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Kevin

1:22 pm on Monday, November 14, 2011

Colin,
Your questions are familiar to all members of the Roman Catholic Church – they are the questions that were answered for us by the deposit of faith, and so we take no offense. What is offensive is the implication that Roman Catholics writing on this page or elsewhere would, on reading or hearing those questions, respond with some form of violence. It is precisely because of our known passive method of intellectual response that cowards feel free to insult and taunt us and our faith without consequence.

David

11:27 am on Monday, November 14, 2011

Jeff, come back and visit St. Nick's, Evanston some time. We struggle to embody the kind of integrity of which you write here. I'm sharing your column with my colleagues on the parish staff (I am a lay minister here) and some other parishioners. I think you'd find your childhood parish to still be a source of support and nourishment!

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Jeff Ward

11:36 am on Monday, November 14, 2011

David,

Thank you for your kind offer, but sadly, the trip from Evanston to Geneva is a bit nightmarish. Though, as we we're taking care of my mother during her 2009 cancer battle, I drove down Washington Street a few times and smiled.

I also recently called Fon du Lac and was sad to learn of the passing of so many of the nuns from that time, including Sister Regis who did the calligraphy mentioned in the column.

Before I can even consider coming back to the Catholic Church they have to make some effort to set the sex abuse scandal right.

Jeff

Colin C. Campbell

1:58 pm on Monday, November 14, 2011

Jeff, You seem to assume that if I make a statement contrary to "traditional Christian belief" I am putting myself in danger of physical attack from whom? Christians? That never occurred to me.

Kevin, my comments apply to all belief systems. There is myth, magical thinking, superstition, provable fact, and the unknown. You choose what you wish to believe. Please don't tell me what I should believe. In return I promise to respect, if not share your beliefs.

RM, If you study our history you will find that many founders (including Jefferson, Madison,and Franklin) were mistrustful of religious institutions. They saw the results of the battles between the RC and Protestant Church in Europe and did not wish to have that here any more than they wanted a king. That's why the clause pertaining to religious freedom and separation of church and state appears in the very first section of the Bill of Rights. Many references to God were included as a non-denominational convention or added years later.

Are human beings incapeable of being moral without the guidance of a supernatural being? Must we have the threat of reward or punishment in the form of heaven or hell? Are we incapeable of establishing an adequate way of addressing morality ourselves?

To return to Jeff's original point, I too find it interesting that we have seen arrests, firings, and lots of anguish over the Penn State issue but that so far only one serving US Bishop has been charges with a crime. Why is that?

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Kevin

2:33 pm on Monday, November 14, 2011

The concept of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" was a novel idea when it was first brought forward over two thousand years ago. Has there been a difference in human behavior since that announcement? You can judge that for yourself. Roman Catholics adhere to a moral code primarily because their sins offend God. Your final point implies some form of collusion between the Roman Catholic Church and the US legal system in order to minimize the publicity and negative impact associated with the multitude of abuse claims filed against the Church over the years - you are either naive or uninformed.

Bob McQuillan

2:11 pm on Monday, November 14, 2011

111 comments! Almost there, come on we need to get at least 20 more to rank among the highest Jeff Ward commented opinion columns.
I know you can do it.

Colin C. Campbell

3:20 pm on Monday, November 14, 2011

Kevin;

We do not know much about the morality that existed in pre-historic times but anthropological studies of stone age peoples living in modern times find that nearly all have developed some form of "religion".

The presumption is that the idea of life after death may go back tens of thousands of tears as evidenced by burials of Neanderthals and early homo sapiens. Perhaps the concept of a supernatural creator, or at least life after death is in inherent to humans.

I'm pretty sure that early humans had a concept of morality. Certainly modern stone age people have, although it may differ from our own.

There are some 20 different "major" religions in the world (depending up on your source) and at least 6 different Christian churches with perhaps more than 6000 separate denominations. I presume that all of them think that they alone have the correct answers to things.

I did not think of, nor did I imply "collusion". You inferred that on your own. I simply asked why so few prosecutions. I'm still awaiting an answer. Anybody have any ideas?

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